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Poster: Ssag Date: Jun 22, 2007 11:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

Well there are many ways you can go with this. Getting media players that play FLAC, RAR and SHN. Or getting the converters to swap to MP3. Which ever way you go I basically have them all. All of it for free too, so ask for a link and I can give it to you.


This battle between lossless-lossy is way silly. The loss of sound converting to MP3 is so minimal I personally can not tell. So is keeping up with the latest technology for that matter, no need to consume what the techno geeks are selling as the latest and greatest. Right now most of the stereos in your car and home are MP3, most people can only play MP3 and most everything you buy is MP3. This notion you must keep your music in FLAC SHN or whatever the lossless freaks come up with next is silly. And if you don't convert you can't listen to it in your car. Nor can you give it to your friends the casual music buyer.

Personally, the sound quality is so good these days what VERY little you lose converting is just not that noticeable.

Your right the industry did kill off MP3 technology recently and replaced it with MP4 technology so people would not have to buy all new equipment and their collections would not become obsolete. MP technology is just not going anywhere fast and won't for long time IMHO.

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Poster: Scrim Date: Jun 22, 2007 12:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

Using MP3 is cool, just don't delete the lossless files.

In a couple of years, memory won't be an issue. It won't matter how large the file is, there will be enough memory in every audio device to hold more music than you can load on it. At that time, your ipods, car stereo, everything will be playing lossless files. And why would you want to be stuck with lossy files for the rest of your life?

An analogy: vinyl records had superior sound over pre-recorded cassettes. I would buy the record, then make a cassette copy (just like making an MP3) and then listen to the cassette. The cassette didn't sound as good as the album, but it was "just as good" and was more convenient. When I wanted to get down and boogie though, I always put the record on. And if the cassetee got buggered up, I would always go back to the lossless album to make another copy.

Remember when having 1 MB of memory on a computer was a big deal??? Well, pretty soon we will be saying that about 30 GB ipods. We will laugh at the thought of ONLY having 30 GB of memory.

Listening to an MP3 file will be likened to buying a pre-recorded cassette instead the CD. It sounds just as good to some people and on some people's stereo systems. But why not get the full audio for the same price if you have a choice?

Yes, external hard drives are a couple hundred dollars. But it's a wise investment for the future when you are stuck with thousands of lossy files that can never be brought back to their original version. There's a reason the files are called "lossy."

And yes, the whole Lossless argument is stupid, so I don't know why I feel compelled to write about it. Except that I don't like to see these files traded. Some people just don't care (or know enough to care) and infect the audio gene pool. This is not being responsible to the future deadheads who are yet to hear Jerry ripping it up during Tenn. Jed!

Speaking of which, someone called out 4-21-84 a few days ago. Agreed, killer show!

http://www.archive.org/details/gd84-04-21.neumann.nawrocki.18253.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: Ssag Date: Jun 22, 2007 1:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

Seriously how much difference in sound is there between lossless and lossy? (I am asking a serious question here since I just spouted off how there isn't much). I have a expensive stereo with great speakers. I hear very little difference. Then again my ears may gone the route of Pete Townsend's. Any info is appreciated because maybe I am wrong.

Secondly, the implication I am reading is there is a shelf life on MP3's. Are you saying they degrade over time? What exactly do you mean? I have never read they degrade over time.

I have an external hard drive. They are cheaper than that now. I paid 120.00 for 300gigs of extra memory. I still managed to fill up 250 gigs worth of music in 6 months. Not everything I have has been converted to MP3, just what I wanted to listen to in the car or give to friends.

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Jun 22, 2007 2:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

i'm 37 so my ears are not shot just yet and i can tell the difference between lossless and mp3 but that also depends on the bit rate the mp3 was encoded to.though i could only tell the difference between them pumping the tunes via klipsch speakers and a nice amp,the low end tends to suffer slightly to my ears.with that said i have no problems with mp3 except for trading purposes which should be kept in it's original format in shn or flac.tests have been done on mp3 trading on audio forums,what happens is you make a copy to someone in mp3 and that person makes a copy of the copy to someone else and that's when some of the audio starts getting lost so where back to cassette generation 1gen,2,gen etc...and we come to far to start that again.i've had tenth generation cassettes and they sounded like crap but if you heard the master tapes you be blown away.so for the sake of preserving the music for future fans i only trade in shn/flac and like scrim says memory is getting bigger and cheaper every year and companies like cowon are working on portable players with 250gb drives,so 500 and more are not so far off in the distant future.i'll try to find that forum on mp3 trading for you ssag i got a bad habit of not bookmarking those things.

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Poster: Scrim Date: Jun 22, 2007 3:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

Interesting, so the MP3's do degrade over time? Must be from poor rips(?) but I can understand how that would happen.

Wow, it's hard to remember anymore when all my recording was through cassettes. Real time taping, it took forever. And doing all those tape covers - argh. Now we just copy over a text file! I love this digital stuff.

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Poster: Scrim Date: Jun 22, 2007 3:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

I wasn't implying that MP3's degrade, I was just saying that they are cool to use, and that you should keep the lossless file to make new lossy files if you want to. Maybe a new lossy format comes along that is only half the file size of MP3. Would you rather convert MP3's into the new format, or start from your fresh, clean, lossless version? I was saying that I always kept a clean LP for making new copies in case the one I had became bad or corupted. I don't copy the LP and then throw it away afterwards. The same here, when you make an MP3, don't delete the lossless file. Unless you are downloading MP3's, then that's the best you'll ever have.

I have well over $10K in my stereo, and MP3's sound pretty damn good! And so do cassettes, but that's partially because I'm listening to them through a Nakamichi deck. But I can hear a difference, albeit ever so slight. It may be more of a psychological thing. But on a theoretical standpoint, I want everything to be as good as it can be.
The only reason I see for having MP3's is that they take up less space. And for that reason ONLY, it's the wrong reason to collect these files. Max said he was going to start collecting these files "massively," and my suggestion is to get lossless from torrents. He can make MP3's for his ipod, and still have good lossless trading and listening material. And when he gets crazy enough to spend the same money I do on audio, he'll be getting the most bang for his buck (all the time it takes to download and amass these audio files.)

Nothing so sweet as hearing jerry rip it up on a great recording through a great stereo on a great night with a great buzz. That's what it's all about baby!

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Poster: Ssag Date: Jun 22, 2007 3:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

That makes more sense. I see where you are coming from now. I still have most of my stuff in lossless (about 90% plus of my collection) so I am not in any danger. Plus when I seed of course it's always lossless.

Thanks for the idea of giving me a MP3 site for trading but truthfully I do so much burning/trading for my friends I can't even keep up with that. Besides,the only place I trade on is dimeadozen and sometimes thetraderden. Thats plenty for me. Plus I only trade in lossless anyhow. That seems to be what the big boys will only trade in so I just oblige. Thanks for the info.

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Jun 22, 2007 6:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

i hear everytime you rip an mp3 the quality degres, also yeah.. flash memory is taking over.. i have no idea why ipods (an actual hard drive w/ moving parts) ever became bigger than mp3 players!


Hey Ssag, could you email me? mchorak@gwc.cccd.edu


thnx in advancio,

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Poster: Ssag Date: Jun 22, 2007 6:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

Do you mean putting shows on flash sticks? When I go to China and southeast Asia they sell flash sticks to us all the time for about 10 bucks for 5 gigs. That would be expensive after a while. I see some people on the ships do it that way but I went the external hard drive route. Most people just have regular studio albums and have no need for what we all do. Whats more is MP3 is the preferred method of trading in the straight world.

BTW Max I just sent you an email. Just in case it goes to junk keep your eye out for the title: Archives SSDD reply in the heading.

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Jun 22, 2007 6:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

all those flash sticks are is the same as mp3 players.. they store it as flash media ( i THINK).. anyways.. I'm going to try to brainwarp my friends and family into loving GD with an SBD full show of SSDD dvd


is it really the whole setlist? daliguana was kind enough to send me a copy, but it only had a few songs, and the DS cut out at the end, i thoroughly enjoyed it tho!

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Poster: Ssag Date: Jun 22, 2007 7:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

That be it. Not a full show and it's cut up into 5 parts. That can annoying sometimes.

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Poster: walden-puddle Date: Jun 23, 2007 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Technical Question

I'm not too technically hip and have had difficulty keeping everything together on my computer, figuring out the format conversions etc.....

But I am an audiophile...and I have WAYYYYY too much money in stereo gear in my house. I had always been pretty impressed with the sound quality of high bit rate mp3's on my system....until we did a comparison starting with a lossless version and then the same show downsampled a few times. VERY, VERY clear differences. We started with the best...and then sampled down to the worst...and by the time we got there, you could REALLY hear the difference. (even though the "worst" would be quite acceptable for most people.)

I guess on a highly resolving (what audiophiles would call "transparent") system, the differences are quite clear, but your point is well taken. On most gear, mp3 players, "basic" CD players etc....you would be hard pressed to hear the differences, if at all. Like I said...I was quite happy until someone showed me different.

But REALLY being able to hear the tiniest twists of music on EACH instrument is a kick....and even "hear" them walking around on stage is just WILD!